Nicholas Baker is a talented industrial design student at the Savannah College of Art and Design. Baker designed this Prism night light over a year ago:
Although Baker submitted the design to Chicago-based Unbranded Designs, it does not appear to have been put into production. Imagine Baker’s surprise when he saw the following page:
China’s AliExpress online store not only listed this lamp as one of their $63.11 items, but added insult to injury, they stole Baker’s real photo and posted it as a real product image!
It’s just beyond the pale. What is not clear is whether AliExpress actually produced a counterfeit as there are no photos of themselves and the lamp is listed as “no longer available”. Was it ever available? Is it possible that at one time this very shady company simply took payment for a product for which it not only did not own the rights, but did not even bother to produce?
“I don’t know enough about the legality of these things to know what rights I have,” Baker, who developed the project, wrote on the Core77 board in November 2014. “Anyway, any help or contact would be greatly appreciated.”
Baker, I’d say you’d have to contact a lawyer, but I cynically suspect that you’ll never be able to squeeze a dime out of AliExpress. Does anyone have any advice or personal/professional experience with this?
I also saw it. Although it’s a copy, they obviously designed their own version… and they didn’t use my photo… so no offense.
Nicholas, you are so generous. They didn’t “design their own version” – it was a poor copy, but a copy nonetheless!
Agree with Kirk Dyer, this is not a new phenomenon. AliExpress is a web portal just like Amazon and eBay. This direct-to-consumer division of Alibaba is a well-known supply chain platform for companies looking for factories in the Far East. They are not responsible for self-monitoring the legality of products listed on their site (in my experience, just like Amazon and eBay).
Aliexpress and Alibaba – the scourge! Amazon isn’t much better, but at least Shopify shuts down their site when someone blackmails you. During my Kickstarter campaign, two Chinese companies used my image on Alibaba along with a CAD screenshot they hastily copied… it was crazy “Wild East”. Lawless.
My designs were stolen by the factories that made my household items. An “American company” just bought it from a factory showroom in China, a line of “available for sale” items. I contacted an American company and they agreed to stop and stop production, but it showed up on Amazon the following year due to them ordering a lot of “crazy cheap” versions of my design. I complained to Amazon and apparently it disappeared. I bought a fake one to test – it barely works. Just know that anything you make in China will, if possible, be scrapped and sold around the world.
Geraint, yes, I read the Alibaba post. I wonder if the Chinese really know what your design is for?
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/patent-scott-snider has great comments below and almost every issue seems to be covered – I could add my own horror stories (even some law enforcement happy endings) but this isn’t going to do anything other than fuel my anger… so I’ll just add that; one should assume that once they make it through any commit or clarify it in any public forum to any interested parties (no pun intended) an idea or a product – and that starts potential plagiarism. Until the last decade, most Far Eastern cultures still viewed the reproduction of ideas and products as a compliment to the original owner of that IP—it would take decades for that perception to continue to change. Our ideas are only milliseconds away from someone with the financial means to copy, manufacture, market and sell them. My company often uses Far Eastern suppliers and prototype workshops, but we know that we lose ownership of parts the moment they see them, receive data, etc. There are some precautions you can take, such as: we make multi-part assemblies at the same time in different parts of China (subsequently assembled in the USA), so that Party A does not know Party B, and if component A is torn off, it is useless without component B, etc. Contacting a lawyer in such a case will be useless and will lead to completely fruitless costs incurred. Sad to say, but absolutely true. I recently wrote a LinkedIn post on a related topic – patenting or not… that might have some value (link in this post).
”Baker submitted the design to the Unbranded Designs platform in Chicago, and it doesn’t appear to be in production yet.”
I had the exact same problem and they even stole the 3D rendering of my product. Their version is cheap and the price is almost the same. It continues to appear on Amazon and eBay. Unfortunately for a new design started by a student with a good idea how they are raising money to protect their product in all countries of the world. It just can’t be expensive. Not only that, but the best and biggest companies in the world have the same problem. I took it as a form of flattery and moved on. The Chinese military is giving the green light to Western products ranging from clean energy (wind turbines) to weapons systems (F-35s) to state-controlled companies, which then set up factories to undermine their direct competition. If you equalize the accumulated trade losses from this lost business over 10 years, the US is losing about $1 trillion a year. This is not sustainable. Either fail or join them. Their government doesn’t play by the rules at all.
Assuming they do sell, if you somehow find out which companies are buying your designs on AliExpress, you can sue them.
Oh, and a correction to the article. AliExpress is not an online store, it is a platform where third parties can sell. It’s kind of like the Amazon marketplace.
(correct version of comment) I am very disappointed with what was said. But I’m also a bit confused that it hasn’t been mentioned, at least from what I’ve seen, the object’s design could have been “inspired” by: a 1988 Luceplan on/off lamp designed by Santachiara of Meda and Raj. Since the article complains of dishonesty, it seems to me right … to present Caesar’s material to Caesar. See: http://www.luceplan.com/Prodotti/1/2/114/t/84/OnOffhttp://illuminazione.webmobili.it/p-21990-on_off-luceplan-lampade_da_tavolo-.html
FINE! Didn’t see it, thanks for posting As for rendering for Caesar, that was the initial inspiration…
I left http://illuminazione.webmobili.it/p-21990-on_off-luceplan-lampade_da_tavolo-.html http://illuminazione.webmobili.it/p-21990-on_off-luceplan-lampade_da_tavolo-.html disappointed what was mentioned. But I’m also a bit confused that it hasn’t been mentioned, at least from what I’ve seen, the object’s design could have been “inspired” by: a 1988 Luceplan on/off lamp designed by Santachiara of Meda and Raj. Since the article complains of dishonesty, it seems to me right … to present Caesar’s material to Caesar. See: http://www.luceplan.com/Prodotti/1/2/114/t/84/OnOffhttp://illuminazione.webmobili.it/p-21990-on_off-luceplan-lampade_da_tavolo-.html
The story is actually very disappointing, nothing to say. But I have to point out another frustrating fact: no one cites the old design to “inspire” this new one. I’m referring to the 1988 Denis Santachiara, Alberto Mada and Franco Raggi On/Off lamp made by Luceplan… to be honest.
It doesn’t just happen to students, it happens to professionals like me all the time.. I’m fed up with this and wonder what kind of designers these companies hire.. or they just don’t want to pay good designers so hire cheap designers , whose only job is to scour the internet (or stores) for great concepts and ideas, and you’ll be knocked out! The law needs to be adjusted to protect people who really think and have brains!
Haven’t read all the reviews so I don’t know if anyone has said this before me. But basically manufacturers are always looking for good design to make money. They have no intention of producing a product unless they have a strong interest in AliExpress/Alibaba. If enough people ask them to do it, they will understand how to do it. We ran into this case about a week ago and it happened to a client at the studio I work for. He is a young inventor who just raised the money he needs on KickStarter. A few days before the event, the product was already listed on AliExpress with sketches, renders and photos of the working model we made for it in China. It’s a supplement for him, but he’s sure to lose money on it, and there’s nothing you can do about it. Reverse engineering is easy when the product is available to the public, you just have to outdo them in marketing and remind your customers that your product is exceptional in terms of safety, warranty, quality of materials and finish etc.
It’s still available: Search Night Light Seesaw It’s $50-80 a unit – wow, that sucks
nice design. This is a problem that has always existed in China. I have found that notarizing the development date marks it as your development. (Completed by this date) If copies of your design are successfully sold in that country, you can successfully challenge the manufacturer, especially if they use your image.
I’ve seen my products get knocked out and then show up at trade shows, so I did some research on that as well. My client opened a sales office in China, in part to fight piracy. A couple of things to note here: China has intellectual property laws, and if you have a business there, you have ways to protect your work at the source rather than trying to block suppliers at the border. In addition, we understand that Chinese consumers value authenticity, so building and branding your brand in China can help inform the public and further protect your intellectual property. I understand that this can be a very costly move for students, but it’s usually worth noting.
Have you ever wondered why all pictures of certain types of products on Alibaba are exactly the same? Or why many sites do not have this element? They make it clear on their website that they would like to be notified if an item for sale is actually not currently available, which is a big enough problem.
Not surprising. For the same reason, platforms like Etsy, Ebay, and even the recently launched Amazon Handmade are flooded with fakes and/or counterfeits. Fighting Alibaba or Chinese sellers in China is almost useless – time-consuming, expensive and tedious. I believe that the best form of “protecting” and getting proper credit for a design is to have the actual device launched at quality fairs, blogs, magazines, and/or manufactured and sold through legitimate US and European resellers or crowdfunding schemes.
In China, every comment is irrelevant. I lived, worked and designed there for five years. They copy and sell anything. The police are impossible. It’s a harsh reality, but it’s a reality. If it’s not advertised on Ali Express, there are other Chinese web marketplaces that you simply can’t access in the US. Money rules in their country, with the exception of China, where there are thousands of counterfeit markets selling copies. Isn’t that wrong… yes, but in any case, you should regard it as flattery. Drive to Yiwu, Shenzhen or Hong Kong. You just need to evaluate the resources they have to reproduce the product.
Unless you patent a mechanism that allows you to turn on the light by moving the sea saw while the light is on?
Having lived in China for several years now, customers have been constantly coming to us and asking us to make the same products with real photos and product catalogs from other companies. If you have money, someone can do it for you in China. So pervasive and overwhelming that if you don’t sell it now, the only thing you can do is be proud that someone actually likes your design.
One more thing should be noted. If you look at the link, the fourth picture is not mine. The provider creates a physical copy. If you look closely, on the one hand it does not have a simple notch, like mine.
You may need industrial design protection in the US and other countries to protect Chinese companies selling products outside of China.
First, I agree with the reader: this has nothing to do with AliExpress. Litigation against Alibaba will probably lead nowhere. But that doesn’t mean Baker can’t use them as leverage. Here are my suggestions:
Someone selling on Aliexpress is probably just looking to see if there is a demand for this product. If there is demand, he or she will find a factory in China to produce it. No one will copy something without confirming the demand for the product.
Since he is a student, Mr. Baker must ask himself a few questions about how the design was created and how to earn the right to know the provenance:
Creating a product as part of a school design class does not transfer ownership of the intellectual property to the school. Formerly Dean of the School of Design, I am currently a Professor at Swinburne University of Technology in Australia and Tongji University in Shanghai. Neither these schools nor any other schools I know of have the right to require students to work. Such claims also affect the rights to written projects, assignments, and theses in research areas where students directly own the copyright to their own work. The University may only assert proprietary rights in intellectual property matters if the student is an employee in a program sponsored by the University and only with due notice. The authors of these reviews are giving incorrect legal advice.
Pan Long: No, no one can patent a magazine stick or a wheel. But they may have patented a certain type of chopstick or a wheel with a unique function. What are the criteria for registering a trademark, obtaining a patent…
Knowing so little about patent law, I can’t believe that “first to file” will work as well as it sounds. Does this mean we can patent the wheel? Or equipment? Or spoons, chopsticks…? There must be some interpretation of the boundaries of this rule.
Although he could register a design, it’s not about the function, it’s about the form, much cheaper than a patent, but harder to maintain, as if changing the shape is a little easier to round up. But again, only useful if someone trying to import it for sale using the region where it is registered, not just offshore online sellers.
Does the school own student jobs? No. The school does not own the rights to student work. No social network anywhere owns the rights to the photos posted by the participants.
I have several friends who sell their handicrafts online, some through platforms like Etsy. Both designs were completely stolen and one of them was reused to the same extent as the real image. After all, all you can do is call them and ask them to remove it, but if you don’t have a design patent or trademark, there’s nothing you can legally do to stop them.
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Although Baker submitted the design to Chicago-based Unbranded Designs, it does not appear to have been put into production. Imagine Baker’s surprise when he saw the following page:
China’s AliExpress online store not only listed this lamp as one of their $63.11 items, but added insult to injury, they stole Baker’s real photo and posted it as a real product image!
It’s just beyond the pale. What is not clear is whether AliExpress actually produced a counterfeit as there are no photos of themselves and the lamp is listed as “no longer available”. was it ever possible that at one time this shady company simply charged for a product that it not only didn’t own the rights to, but didn’t even bother to produce?
“I don’t know enough about the legality of these things to know what my rights are,” Baker, who developed the project, wrote on the Core77 board in November 2014. \”In any case, we will be very grateful for any help or contact\”.
Post time: Mar-22-2023
